Behind the Scenes of Choiceology
A Webinar with Professor Katy Milkman
By Deborah Braidic, MABC, MSc
GAABS Executive Board Member, Research Board Member, Editorial Board Member
Just a few short days ago, GAABS welcomed Katy Milkman, host of the popular podcast "Choiceology" for a special webinar. The reason … to take a deep dive into what makes Katy’s podcast, sponsored by Charles Schwab, so impactful – it’s a two-time GAABS award-winner and has won awards for edutainment as well from other organizations.
New GAABS Board Chair, Torben Emmerling interviewed Katie about her approach to science communication, how she balances academic research with public engagement, and the production process behind "Choiceology." They discussed the podcast's successful format of combining storytelling with scientific insights, cultural considerations in content creation, and the challenges of translating academic research into practical applications.
Below, you’ll find a few of our top take-aways from the session.
What’s Below
READ: A TLDR summary
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TLDR Summary
Katy Milkman shared how Choiceology evolved from 95% storytelling to a more balanced science-storytelling split — and why deliberate underpreparation is her secret weapon for keeping interviews accessible
Organizational inertia is the #1 barrier to implementing behavioral science at work — Katy's fix: lead with vivid, high-stakes case studies (think: $120M left on the table at Lyft)
The show is built collaboratively year-round, with Schwab partners, producers, and story chasers shaping each 12-episode season around scientific interviews first, narrative second
Katy's biggest inspirations? Richard Thaler, Angela Duckworth, and Chip & Dan Heath — proof that the best science communicators are students of great science communicators
Summary
It Wasn’t Her Idea
Katy was clear that she picked up the podcast host opportunity after Dan Heath transitioned to take on a few other things professionally after hosting its initial very successful season. She described the evolution of the podcast's format from 95% storytelling with only 5% science content to a more balanced 60-40 split between storytelling and scientific discussion. Katy shared that she loves featuring both well-known experts and junior researchers, and her advantage is that she has access to early knowledge of research before its about to be published and can add some of these lesser known but emerging scientists to the roster for consideration.
Evolution of Choiceology
Katy discussed changes to her podcast over the years, noting an increased focus on the storytelling, the science and the interviews with those at the forefront of the latest science. What they’ve done less of … man on the street interviews and “live experiments” where the team tries to recreate the results of some of the things that we accept as important principles of behavioural science. The move away from live experiments was more of a concession to the high-production requirements than it was a lack of interest. Katy also explained that while the podcast has grown in popularity, its format remains focused on 12 episodes per year due to resource constraints and personal time limitations.
A Masterclass in Science Communication
There’s no doubt that Choiceology is a masterclass for the rest of us in communicating science. It manages, even when interviewing very senior researchers to remain accessible to a wide audience. Katy’s trick to making this work–deliberate underpreparation. Katy explained this as the result of recognizing that the closer that she read her guest’s research to the date of the podcast, the higher the likelihood that she would, as an interviewer, pave the way for the researcher to take her down a road that was a nerdy science discussion, from which very little offered utility to the lay public. The more that she remained unfamiliar and in more of a novice state, the higher the likelihood that she would be able to steer the guests into territory that was much more easily accessible.
Challenges with Implementing the Research
When prompted to opine on what prevents us, as practitioners, from being more easily able to implement the things that we learn from the science, especially in our organisations, Katy had some wise counsel to offer.
First, she attributes the lack of implementation to status quo bias that manifests as organizational inertia. She alluded to some missed opportunities at Lyft to increase profits by $120 million annually by not incorporating left-digit bias into their pricing algorithm, and a hospital initiative that improved generic prescription rates from 75% to 100%.
To overcome the power of status quo bias, Katy emphasized that sharing vivid stories as case studies can demonstrate the significant impact of seemingly small behavioral science interventions to convince organizations of their value.
Who Inspires Her as a Behavioral Science Communicator?
There was significant praise for Choiceology and for Katy as host with many commenting that Choiceology is a masterclass in science communication–with a tremendous use of storytelling, jargon-free language, and great community engagement.
But who does Katy look to for her own inspiration? Well, it turns out that her greatest inspiration is Richard Thaler. She also was quick to reference Angela Duckworth, and Chip and Dan Heath, noting their ability to make complex ideas accessible through storytelling.
How the Proverbial Sausage Gets Made
Last but certainly not least, Katy shared a bit about the collaborative process that helps Choiceology get produced. All year long, Katy jots down ideas–everything from things that she encounters in the research, ideas to which she is exposed at conferences, and any other source that catches her podcast host ear’s attention. Planning for each season then begins with a team meeting involving producers, story chasers, and Schwab representatives including Mark Riepe, who has a behavioral science background.
Together, the group aims to balance financial decision-making content with creative storytelling elements. Katy explained that the process now involves conducting scientific interviews with the appropriate experts first and then the story is structured around those interviews. Producers handling initial interviews and Katy writing script segments that tie everything together.
What’s Next?
Well, Katy shows no signs of slowing down or even considering stopping. She acknowledged that now video is “the thing” in podcasting but she hasn’t brought herself to truly consider it. In the meantime, there’s plenty of stories to be told and it sounded as if she has a pretty amazing team that comes together to make Choiceology a success.
Most of all, she is hoping that she can do even more to help practitioners, like those who participated in the webinar last week, do more to translate their scientific knowledge into communications that work for all audiences.